And the mother if the year award goes to

[SeaCat22]

[QUOTE=KMac;n18740. But, I don't know any of them that chose the neighborhood bike (riden by everyone) for their wife. Not a single one. [/QUOTE]

Except for Jesus. He chose a nation that would repeatedly turn away and go back to idolatry and disobey. He even chose prostitutes to be in his lineage. A picture of the church. Repeatedly going back to our previous love and old nature...and He keeps forgiving us and taking us back. We are not worthy.
You reminded me of His never ending love and forgiveness.

[KMac]

This is so true ! Kids are unique and what works in one kids life won't work in another . I too was raised in a churchy environment and my parents didn't spare the rod by a long shot .
My first kiss was after a church revival behind the church , my friend's dad was a traveling minister and had an act with a trick pulpit , it would wobble and seem ready to fall down , until he turned the board inside of it (on the sly)and it would be solid as a rock . He would then say the power of Jesus would make him stand on it and do a flip off of it . He used to practice it in the back yard , it was funny as hell when he fell . But those shows and Bible schools and camp was just sex central , mostly innocent stuff , kissing and hugging , but the older kids were getting it on for sure .

Kyle's rush to condemn his ex over how she raised the kid is more a statement on his opinion of his ex than a true assessment of parenting .

I had friends whose mom would smoke pot with us , both her kids turned out great , took over the family business and became quite wealthy .
All the experts on raising kids are just quacks . I never hit my kid , she wasn't raised in a church , I told her she could trust me to never make anything any worse than it already was so she would come to me with her troubles .
She did and still does , she is a great person , raising a great little boy .

You have a very twisted view of what being raised in a Christ centered home is. "Hitting" your child is not Christ centered.

What I see a lot of times is that people use "religion" as a crutch or a way to offend someone. That's not my goal. Also, just because someone claims to be religious doen't make them so, anymore than me standing in a garage making car sounds makes me a car.

What I have heard/read this morning is things like "controlling", hitting, etc. These are NOT behaviors of a Christian.

Smitty, as far as my ex goes, she became someone I didn't know. An awful person. My son is an addict. He is a criminal. All because she wanted to be who SHE was. Not what they needed. Both of my children that lived with her didn't finish highschool. She has a younger boy that is an emotional trainwreck and one that has birth defects from her drug and alcohol use while pregnant.

She is a walking poster board for who shouldn't be a parent.

[erie skipper]

[QUOTE=Smitty45;n187420]

Again , you seem to not understand history . Families lived in small one room shacks and the parents had sex while the kids were in the room , or in the house at least . Hard to get more exposure to sex than being there while it's happening . Living on the family farm kids got to watch animals having sex regularly , they were exposed to sex at a much younger age than present day kids are .
People like to think the old times were the good old days , thats a myth . Watching two parents having sex or the family cows , it not much different than watching it on the computer . Sex is sex . [/QUOT

You're speaking of your own ideas of history and a limited view at best. You forget about the history of puritan values as well. You can quote historical issues as much as you want; I have been referring to more modern day views of right and wrong and things that should best be saved for those old and mature enough to deal with it. You are ok with very young people exploring sex at a very young age; sex education and sex exploitation are very different things and have little to do with the history of one room homes and what did or did not happen on a farm.
And by the way; one room or twenty rooms, parents waited to have sex after the kids were asleep and you that is not arguable in the least.

[LFBB]

I was definitely thinking about sex at that age . I asked my girlfriend if I could feel her boobs and she said , "I'm as flat as you are , or I'd let you " LOL , in 1974 .
Sex is just sex , not a sin , it's a fact of life . The social stigma placed on it by the church has caused more harm than good .

And just FYI , I had a sex life like a rock star , still do , just less of it , LOL . The stories I could tell , Ah , the good old days .

Sex isn't just sex, I'm far from a prude but 12 year olds not knowing jack about sex and or how to handle it should not be happening. I'm glad the mom in question did what she did and had the talk with her son, I hope the talks are ongoing, but this world is not sane.

[Jughed]

So great discussion and points being made!! Civil discourse is a great thing.

[Jughed]

Maybe so, but I've tried to keep them my whole life. And in the end, those girls in the Catholic schools just made their choices. It wasn't important to them, well, important enough.

I guess I've always seen it like this: if you can cheapen the most intimate things two people can share into "urges" we can't control, what's the whole point of it all? A free for all?

It may not matter to some, but it did to me. I know a lot of guys that chased women. They would sleep with anyone. "8 to 80, blind, crippled or crazy". Lol. But, I don't know any of them that chose the neighborhood bike (riden by everyone) for their wife. Not a single one.

So funny story.

The girl i mentioned with the three kids ended up with 4, from 4 different dads.

We had a dorky kid in the neighborhood who was a flat out virgin, not by choice, but because of his level of nerd.


He is a great guy… fell for her - the neighborhood bike.

The’ve been married for 25+ years now, he sold a software company for a few million… they travel the world and just love life.

Over 1/2 of my friend group from back then are divorced, train wrecks or just miserable people - that unlikely couple is just loving life.

I think they have a total of 6 kids.

[Smitty45]

Sex isn't just sex, I'm far from a prude but 12 year olds not knowing jack about sex and or how to handle it should not be happening. I'm glad the mom in question did what she did and had the talk with her son, I hope the talks are ongoing, but this world is not sane.

I agree , but what I meant is having sex at twelve won't scar him for life or turn him into an axe murderer , worse things could happen .

[LFBB]

Yeah, she could get pregnant, he or she could get an STD. Kids are stupid, it's why we have laws, to protect them from themselves.

[Smitty45]

You have a very twisted view of what being raised in a Christ centered home is. "Hitting" your child is not Christ centered.

What I see a lot of times is that people use "religion" as a crutch or a way to offend someone. That's not my goal. Also, just because someone claims to be religious doen't make them so, anymore than me standing in a garage making car sounds makes me a car.

What I have heard/read this morning is things like "controlling", hitting, etc. These are NOT behaviors of a Christian.

Smitty, as far as my ex goes, she became someone I didn't know. An awful person. My son is an addict. He is a criminal. All because she wanted to be who SHE was. Not what they needed. Both of my children that lived with her didn't finish highschool. She has a younger boy that is an emotional trainwreck and one that has birth defects from her drug and alcohol use while pregnant.

She is a walking poster board for who shouldn't be a parent.

You have a view of being Christ centered based on your own experience , somebody else might have a very different view . You seem to want to interpret , or define , the world based off your experiences and way of life . I interpret it on realities . The reality is for profit preachers preach about the sins of being gay to their flock of sheep and they vote accordingly , so yes , the church does directly affect the laws of man .
The same way it affects the law about the consenting age of minors .
Or abortions .
Look at the Seventh Day Adventist and how Warren Jeffs thought being Christ centered was supposed to work . And he still controls his flock of sheep , from prison .

Kyle , I'm sure you're a great guy , but the smugness of your replies seem reveal the amount of superiority you take from being a believer . Your whole "I've dealt with non believers " as if I'm beneath you for having a different opinion than you , is typical of many who say they're Christians .


And as far as your ex and son , sorry about how that played out , but I've seen it many times . My ex's sister had three kids , they all turned into drug addicts , two ODed and died , but Patty was a great mom and gave the kids everything .
I also have two friends that are and have been all their lives drunks and druggies , but their kids turned out fine , so you just never know .

[KMac]

You have a view of being Christ centered based on your own experience , somebody else might have a very different view . You seem to want to interpret , or define , the world based off your experiences and way of life . I interpret it on realities . The reality is for profit preachers preach about the sins of being gay to their flock of sheep and they vote accordingly , so yes , the church does directly affect the laws of man .
The same way it affects the law about the consenting age of minors .
Or abortions .
Look at the Seventh Day Adventist and how Warren Jeffs thought being Christ centered was supposed to work . And he still controls his flock of sheep , from prison .

My beliefs come from the bible. Scripture and the teachings of Jesus. I am a believer, so what am I supposed to do? Be "okay" with things that are against something I truly believe? Again, you brought up "church".

The social stigma placed on it by the church has caused more harm than good.

I asked how, and it has turned into this. You simply do not like believers saying they are believers. You "say" it's okay for us to be believers, just don't espouse those beliefs. Maybe not in those exact words, but the clear meaning is there.

Now, as far as there being MANY charlatans? Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

Kyle , I'm sure you're a great guy , but the smugness of your replies seem reveal the amount of superiority you take from being a believer . Your whole "I've dealt with non believers " as if I'm beneath you for having a different opinion than you , is typical of many who say they're Christians

Smug? For actually believing and living out my faith? I simply stated my "truth" in response to you saying what are "facts". You defend your "beliefs", or lack of. I am simply doing the same thing. I am not trying to be smug or look down on anyone. This is a conversation, a discussion with different views.

I didn't write "I've dealt with non believers ". I wrote:

"I understand completely. I have met many nonbelievers."

That was in response to:

You don't understand , but there is no creator and I will never stand before him.

I do not believe you, or anyone else, is/are beneath me.

And as far as your ex and son , sorry about how that played out , but I've seen it many times . My ex's sister had three kids , they all turned into drug addicts , two ODed and died , but Patty was a great mom and gave the kids everything .
I also have two friends that are and have been all their lives drunks and druggies , but their kids turned out fine , so you just never know .

Agreed.

[KMac]

You have a view of being Christ centered based on your own experience , somebody else might have a very different view . You seem to want to interpret , or define , the world based off your experiences and way of life . I interpret it on realities .

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself or say, "maybe these people weren't true believers? I believe, with all my heart, this is why the scriptures say "few". As in, few will inherit the Kingdom. "Few" will enter. "Few who will find it". There are a LOT of people who say they are believers, but they have no fruit of those "beliefs".

"You will know them by their fruits".

I agree that many horrible things have been done in the name of "religion". Absolutely agree. But, those people are "false profits". Wolves in sheeps clothing.

[Jughed]

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself or say, "maybe these people weren't true believers? I believe, with all my heart, this is why the scriptures say "few". As in, few will inherit the Kingdom. "Few" will enter. "Few who will find it". There are a LOT of people who say they are believers, but they have no fruit of those "beliefs".

"You will know them by their fruits".

I agree that many horrible things have been done in the name of "religion". Absolutely agree. But, those people are "false profits". Wolves in sheeps clothing.

There is an entire shit pot full of people that think they will be included in the few.

[KMac]

There is an entire shit pot full of people that think they will be included in the few.

You are 100% correct.. A lot of these "people" have no idea what being a true Christ follower is or about. They have listened to man, or been entrenched in "rituals" and symbolic things that are not biblical.

It is as simple as this: If I say I am against stealing, but I am a thief, I truly do not believe what I espouse. Same goes for some that say they are Christians. They say they are believers, but they do not have any "fruit" of that belief in their life, outside their words.

[SIM]

Here is some interesting information on the Pastoral profession. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes212011.htm

If this government information is somewhat correct, the median wage is 55K. Not exactly a "worldly" lucrative line of work to get into. The stats there show 53K pastors being employed in 2021. How many of those would make the list publicly of getting caught doing something really bad? 100...maybe, most likely much less?

Many of the names that have been brought up are from the recent and distant past. I am not sticking up for them, but to have a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch is intellectually dishonest. Its like saying since a crooked lawyer went to prison, that all lawyers are the same. I know some are, but most are not.

In my Christian walk since 2011, I have known personally(very well) 6 or so pastors. All of them are Godly men that have genuine love for their sheep. Are they perfect? No....no one is perfect. I get the criticism, because many non believers hold them to a significantly higher standard than they do themselves. But the question is, why do they use the higher standard to begin with? I think its because they actually know and believe there is a God that is that the basis of that higher standard, but are choosing for whatever reason to deny Him.

[Smitty45]

My beliefs come from the bible. Scripture and the teachings of Jesus. I am a believer, so what am I supposed to do? Be "okay" with things that are against something I truly believe? Again, you brought up "church".


I asked how, and it has turned into this. You simply do not like believers saying they are believers. You "say" it's okay for us to be believers, just don't espouse those beliefs. Maybe not in those exact words, but the clear meaning is there.

Now, as far as there being MANY charlatans? Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.



Smug? For actually believing and living out my faith? I simply stated my "truth" in response to you saying what are "facts". You defend your "beliefs", or lack of. I am simply doing the same thing. I am not trying to be smug or look down on anyone. This is a conversation, a discussion with different views.

I didn't write "I've dealt with non believers ". I wrote:


That was in response to:


I do not believe you, or anyone else, is/are beneath me.




Agreed.

When I brought up "church" I said it affects the laws of man , as in my example , preachers preaching about the sins of being gay , or whatever , and the stupid people who follow the charlatan (your words) vote accordingly .

I expect you to live by your beliefs , but also to let others live by theirs . You think being gay is a sin , don't be gay , but try not to judge someone you don't understand .
It is a fact that 30% or more of the men working in the Vatican are gay , but the Pope stills says it's a sin , hows that work ?

[KMac]

Here is some interesting information on the Pastoral profession. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes212011.htm

If this government information is somewhat correct, the median wage is 55K. Not exactly a "worldly" lucrative line of work to get into. The stats there show 53K pastors being employed in 2021. How many of those would make the list publicly of getting caught doing something really bad? 100...maybe, most likely much less?

Many of the names that have been brought up are from the recent and distant past. I am not sticking up for them, but to have a few bad apples spoil the entire bunch is intellectually dishonest. Its like saying since a crooked lawyer went to prison, that all lawyers are the same. I know some are, but most are not.

In my Christian walk since 2011, I have known personally(very well) 6 or so pastors. All of them are Godly men that have genuine love for their sheep. Are they perfect? No....no one is perfect. I get the criticism, because many non believers hold them to a significantly higher standard than they do themselves. But the question is, why do they use the higher standard to begin with? I think its because they actually know and believe there is a God that is that the basis of that higher standard, but are choosing for whatever reason to deny Him.

My brother was a pastor. He lived right at, or below, the poverty line the entire 25 years he pastored churches.

He retired from ministry and took all his education to Walmart. Lol. Really. Bring a pastor is hard. The scrutiny that they are placed under is unrelenting, and was really too much for his wife. His family was expected to be perfect. Every aspect of his life was expected to be perfect. Pastors are people. The difference being, we all make mistakes, but a true Christ follower won't defend those errors and say it is "okay" to live in a state of error.