Seperation Of Church And State.........................................

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  • Originally posted by SIM View Post
    manitunc......there is no observable science in the "theory" of evolution(how we came from literally nothing to everything).

    You can't even test anything that is 150 millions years old, because you have nothing to test it against. The fossil record is circular reasoning. Is the fossil 150 million years old or is the rock its in 150 million years old? To teach is as fact in our school systems is a travesty. People that believe in the "theory" of evolution are always filling in the blanks with "its reasonable to think" or "wait until some other evidence shows up" or "maybe there is or maybe there isn't". Its good to keep thinking, but don't ever teach the theory as its a done-fact-end of story. Its not.

    I would never "force" my beliefs on others, so you can let that go. How can I force someone to do anything over a internet chat forum? Don't get so offended. I will jump in on any conversation about God. God made us all "free will" thinkers. And I think if you seriously took the time and try to disprove the God of the bible, you would might find some life changing truths.
    All I can say is Wow!. I've tried to stay out of this but....

    Since "SCIENCE" and the Hubbell telescope and Kepler probes have shown that there is probably more than a 40 billion earth sized planets capable of supporting life. And that's only in the Milky Way. You've got to be somewhat delusional to think that your God put his only creation of life on this little shit hole planet. ("Shit hole" stolen from your Prez Donald today in his latest stupid remark today)

    "In November 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarfs in the Milky Way, 11 billion of which may be orbiting Sun-like stars."

    That's 40 BILLION in the Milky Way alone.

    NO WAIT, Latest update:

    "Astronomers estimate 100 billion habitable Earth-like planets in the Milky Way, 50 sextillion in the universe. Astronomers at the University of Auckland claim that there are actually around 100 billion habitable, Earth-like planets in the Milky Way — significantly more than the previous estimate of around 17 billion. Apr 4, 2013"

    Can the average closed little mind of a human being, especially a born again Christian even grasp the magnitude of 50 SEXTILLION?

    DNA and science don't lie. At least not intentionally. It may be proven wrong but at the moment it's your bible that is constantly being proven to be non factual.

    But. whatever gets you through the day, I'm fine with.

    Comment


    • I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying except for that there’s planet out there that could support life. There’s no proof of it. When the proof comes, I’ll believe it.

      Why the ad hominem attacks? Have I done that?
      Andrew Munao Jr
      Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
      888-231-2392 | andyjr@shipyardisland.com | simyamaha.com

      Comment


      • Its good to keep thinking, but don't ever teach the theory as its a done-fact-end of story. Its not.
        I'm not understanding your "ad hominem attacks" problem. You apparently don't believe in science and I do. And I find your theory that only one God placed us on one planet in the universe of 50 sextillion planets holding potential life (as we know it) to be not very logical. Please don't take it personal. I'm just pointing out another perspective. From your previous posts I'm sure you would be quite pleased to have creationism taught in our public schools, yet you seem to turn your back on any science that counters your creationism.


        Sorry to have offended you.

        Comment


        • Your believe that the science of evolution should not be taught is an interference in the education of our children. I see that every attempt to temper my statements to allow for your beliefs is taken as some proof that evolution is not a science. But you don't explain the facts of Madagascar. Observable now, exists now. And yes,we can date the Rock of Madagascar, which matches the Rock of Africa that it came from. And we use that same science to date the shroud of Turin. Or maybe it only works on cloth.

          take your own advice and read a science book, if your faith can withstand facts. And evolution doesn't say it all started from nothing. Why can't you accept that evolution could be part of your god's plan?

          Comment


          • Sextillion?

            Can you imagine the market for pillows?

            What if we find another planet, with another civilization and it turns out to be a "shithole" planet and civilization?

            Do we then restrict immigration?

            Comment


            • Sextillion is a number equal to a 1 followed by 21 zeros. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Also, there are between 100 billion and one trillion galaxies in total, which brings us up to a range of between 10 sextillion and 1 septillion stars.

              The numbers are almost impossible to imagine and yet we are to believe, according to the Bible and therefore by extension all the "faithful", that God created earth and man on this one little planet in seven days as his greatest achievement just so we could worship him. And as was implied earlier that we are the only life forms with a soul in the whole universe. Call me skeptical.

              What if we find another planet, with another civilization and it turns out to be a "shithole" planet and civilization?

              Do we then restrict immigration?
              What if this is actually the Shithole planet and they decide to restrict us from immigrating to their planet? The way we take care of our environment, it's more likely that we'll be looking for a new home first.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sailfish 218 View Post

                I'm not understanding your "ad hominem attacks" problem. You apparently don't believe in science and I do. And I find your theory that only one God placed us on one planet in the universe of 50 sextillion planets holding potential life (as we know it) to be not very logical. Please don't take it personal. I'm just pointing out another perspective. From your previous posts I'm sure you would be quite pleased to have creationism taught in our public schools, yet you seem to turn your back on any science that counters your creationism.

                Sorry to have offended you.
                The only thing I am interested in is the truth. Not half baked theories. I don't disagree with the amount of planets, solar systems.....I 100% agree with. I fail to see the argument you are trying to make though, all your doing is screaming about how many there are, and then criticize me for no apparent reason. Make your argument. If God didn't create them, then what did? Try to stay away from words like "perhaps" or "quiet possibly" or "maybe".

                Andrew Munao Jr
                Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
                888-231-2392 | andyjr@shipyardisland.com | simyamaha.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by manitunc View Post
                  Your believe that the science of evolution should not be taught is an interference in the education of our children. I see that every attempt to temper my statements to allow for your beliefs is taken as some proof that evolution is not a science. But you don't explain the facts of Madagascar. Observable now, exists now. And yes,we can date the Rock of Madagascar, which matches the Rock of Africa that it came from. And we use that same science to date the shroud of Turin. Or maybe it only works on cloth.

                  take your own advice and read a science book, if your faith can withstand facts. And evolution doesn't say it all started from nothing. Why can't you accept that evolution could be part of your god's plan?
                  Like I have said, I am interested in the truth. Not half baked un-provable theories. I have no knowledge of Madascar. I did some Google searches on it and your theories are heavily disputed. I do know that the same sedimentary rock formations in the Grand Canyon are also found in the mid west, and in the middle east. What does that prove?

                  When the attempt it made to steal ideas to fill in gaps from the God of the bible, expect to be challenged. If God is going to be used, we have a source to test that against. God tells us in the bible that He created EVERYTHING. I would agree it doesn't tell us how(the mechanics) He did it. But the evidence points to the truths that He says in His word.

                  Is Genesis actual history? There is a very well done documentary done on this subject called Is Genesis History. A clip from the part on Carbon dating.

                  Andrew Munao Jr
                  Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
                  888-231-2392 | andyjr@shipyardisland.com | simyamaha.com

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SIM View Post

                    The only thing I am interested in is the truth. Not half baked theories. I don't disagree with the amount of planets, solar systems.....I 100% agree with. I fail to see the argument you are trying to make though, all your doing is screaming about how many there are, and then criticize me for no apparent reason. Make your argument. If God didn't create them, then what did? Try to stay away from words like "perhaps" or "quiet possibly" or "maybe".
                    I don't believe I used any of those words. And I in no way did I criticize you personally. Your idea of truth and mine are just based on two different belief systems. You say you are "only interested in the truth" yet your truth is the truth that cannot and will not ever be proven in a scientific manner. Yet you deride the use of scientific method to actually show how the universe and earth and man has developed. You deride well established scientific principles, you deny DNA, natural selection and evolution. You deny carbon dating. Sure, God created everything! Now it's your turn. Show me some proof that God exists. Actual verifiable truth is as likely as you proving there is an afterlife after death. Even Jesus as the Son of God is only believed by 31% of the worlds population.

                    Seems like you are the one attacking me because I find the "Born Again Christian" mentality and the literal interpretation of the bible to be a little too hard for me to swallow.. At least the main stream religions are now realizing that the Bible is not the literal word of God but is the writings of the followers of Jesus who's words were written to reach his followers at that time in our history. As has been said, it's The Greatest Story Ever Told". I agree and it's a wonderful book on how to live a good life and how to treat your fellow man. Too bad that so many of its readers don't seem to be followers.

                    And before you assume I'm a pagan heretic and an atheist, I'm actually a Catholic who spend 8 years in Catholic schools.

                    Comment


                    • I'm learning other points of view, but, God exists whether we're convinced or not, my job is not to convince anyone to believe, that's God's job, It's done through his word by the holy spirit.
                      I believe we are all going to die one day, life is not ended at death, we enter into eternity, with Jesus or without.
                      We will all face judgement, there are 2 choices, yes, or no. John 14:6b, no man comes to the father but through the Son.
                      Ultimately Jesus is savior or judge!
                      Religion is man's way, relationship with God is through the Son. We cannot reach God, he reaches us through his Son.
                      Yes, I'm enjoying this thread, very informative.
                      I don't think any negativity is implied by either side.
                      God's word is true, or is'nt, it does require faith!
                      Thanks to everyone for replying, now if we could get Adam back to BOB. That is the question?
                      BWP

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sailfish 218 View Post

                        I don't believe I used any of those words. And I in no way did I criticize you personally. Your idea of truth and mine are just based on two different belief systems. You say you are "only interested in the truth" yet your truth is the truth that cannot and will not ever be proven in a scientific manner. Yet you deride the use of scientific method to actually show how the universe and earth and man has developed. You deride well established scientific principles, you deny DNA, natural selection and evolution. You deny carbon dating. Sure, God created everything! Now it's your turn. Show me some proof that God exists. Actual verifiable truth is as likely as you proving there is an afterlife after death. Even Jesus as the Son of God is only believed by 31% of the worlds population.

                        Seems like you are the one attacking me because I find the "Born Again Christian" mentality and the literal interpretation of the bible to be a little too hard for me to swallow.. At least the main stream religions are now realizing that the Bible is not the literal word of God but is the writings of the followers of Jesus who's words were written to reach his followers at that time in our history. As has been said, it's The Greatest Story Ever Told". I agree and it's a wonderful book on how to live a good life and how to treat your fellow man. Too bad that so many of its readers don't seem to be followers.

                        And before you assume I'm a pagan heretic and an atheist, I'm actually a Catholic who spend 8 years in Catholic schools.
                        There is only truth and opinion. We both can't be right.

                        I think from just scientific and casual observation that EVERYTHING was carefully designed. And if everything was designed, that means by default there must be a designer. An example, living breathing things. There is so much complexity in everything that lives, if you take something away from it, it can't literally exist. Use a giraffe as an example, the complexity of its circulatory system needs to be exactly how it is(because of its size and shape), otherwise it would be dead. Is there any evidence that a giraffe was anything other then a giraffe? Maybe a smaller giraffe, maybe different colors, maybe different neck lengths, but a giraffe is still a giraffe. It is still the same "kind".

                        God gave us all the ability to clearly see his workmanship, but some of us refuse to see it, or give Him the glory. They are blinded and deaf to Him.

                        Christians don't deny science. Science is a wonderful tool that God gave us. Your scientific accusations against me are just wrong, but its typical and I am used to it. "If you believe in God, you must be anti-science"!! I deny the things that are proven inaccurate.

                        Concerning your bible comments... Jesus speaking.....“You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it"

                        Words to live by or just a good story?


                        Andrew Munao Jr
                        Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
                        888-231-2392 | andyjr@shipyardisland.com | simyamaha.com

                        Comment


                        • Yes, you both can be right. You can't possibly know the whole truth unless you were there, and even that is questionable. Just ask any two eye witnesses. There can be a god and evolution. You still refuse to respond to why evolution could not be part of your god's plan. Why do you surmise that Adam and Eve started here on earth. Could have started on any one of a zillion other planets and humans were later brought here. Do you believe that dinosaurs and man coexisted at the same time? There is evidence of both existing, but none of it showing a co-existence. But if you just want to accept ideas that you can fit into your limited understanding of the bible, so be it. Hell, gravity existed since the dawn of time, but no one understood it until the last few hundred years. Did you expect people writing 4000 years ago to understand the phenomena they were witnessing. No, but they wrote it in terms they understood. Doesnt make it true or false.

                          You must not have looked too deeply into Madagascar, or read one of those christian books or websites that tries to debunk the Madagascar evolution experience. Look at Australia or New Zealand then. Find any duck bill platypus' in your state lately?

                          Its not your belief in god that makes you anti-science. Its your refusal to accept science when it conflicts with your beliefs that makes you so.

                          But, since you insist. No, there is no god, so no godly explanation is necessary to explain our existence.
                          Last edited by manitunc; 01-12-2018, 03:18 PM.

                          Comment


                          • There is no reasonable argument to back up a God exists, after all where is the evidence? Being we share much of our DNA with other creatures I'd say it's at least more plausible that we have morphed over time.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by manitunc View Post
                              Yes, you both can be right. You can't possibly know the whole truth unless you were there, and even that is questionable. Just ask any two eye witnesses. There can be a god and evolution. You still refuse to respond to why evolution could not be part of your god's plan. Why do you surmise that Adam and Eve started here on earth. Could have started on any one of a zillion other planets and humans were later brought here. Do you believe that dinosaurs and man coexisted at the same time? There is evidence of both existing, but none of it showing a co-existence. But if you just want to accept ideas that you can fit into your limited understanding of the bible, so be it. Hell, gravity existed since the dawn of time, but no one understood it until the last few hundred years. Did you expect people writing 4000 years ago to understand the phenomena they were witnessing. No, but they wrote it in terms they understood. Doesnt make it true or false.

                              You must not have looked too deeply into Madagascar, or read one of those christian books or websites that tries to debunk the Madagascar evolution experience. Look at Australia or New Zealand then. Find any duck bill platypus' in your state lately?

                              Its not your belief in god that makes you anti-science. Its your refusal to accept science when it conflicts with your beliefs that makes you so.

                              But, since you insist. No, there is no god, so no godly explanation is necessary to explain our existence.
                              I have responded several times to your question on why. Gods plan is clear, clear as in crystal for anyone that cares to read it. Why would you even want to consider using God to fill in your evolutionary holes? I wouldn't use evolution to explain something in the bible. Its not needed, the bible has the answer for the question.

                              Not sure it even matters quoting biblical scripture to someone that doesn't believe in God. But here goes.

                              From Genesis 1(NLT),

                              20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with birds of every kind.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that scurries and swarms in the water, and every sort of bird—each producing offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 Then God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply. Let the fish fill the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth.”

                              23 And evening passed and morning came, marking the fifth day.

                              24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals.” And that is what happened. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.

                              26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

                              27 So God created human beings in his own image.
                              In the image of God he created them;
                              male and female he created them.


                              Also, through out old and new testament, every time a writer quotes Genesis, its in a literal sense. As factual history. Even Jesus himself quotes it. Ya know him.....the one that died and rose from the dead, with verified historical accounts.

                              Well then the natural question is, who wrote the bible? The answer is God did....through men he choose,
                              2nd Peter 1:20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

                              So in the end,if anyone has a problem with what the bible says, take it up with the Guy that breathed it to life and created everything.

                              Here is what awaits all that ignore or even detest Gods desire to have a relationship with Him.
                              2nd Peter 3 5 They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water. 6 Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood. 7 And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

                              And those last verses my friend is why I take the time to plead with you all.......all that don't know Him, to ask God to reveal Himself to you. That is my prayer.




                              Andrew Munao Jr
                              Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
                              888-231-2392 | andyjr@shipyardisland.com | simyamaha.com

                              Comment


                              • Who is the "us" god is claiming we were made in the image of.

                                i give up with this circular logic experience. Believe what you want.

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