The slow death of online forums

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  • #16
    Originally posted by KMac View Post

    I agree with some of that. I remember a time specifically, on THT, when I was asking for some help with something and everyone (Mike Carrigan, Andy among them) were great. They offered suggestions, even help.. Then, the ankle biters showed up. Comments like; "You may want to stick to the plastic boats in your bathtub", "Man, maybe boating isn't for you".. And so on.. I remember writing that everyone starts somewhere (I wasn't a newbie), and if they didn't want to help, why comment? Answer? Because we can.. Stuff like that. They just loved to jump on people and make things worse. A whole crowd of them..

    It's why I left THT.
    Yes, they should have moderated the boating and fishing sections to keep some class into what the site is advertised as. I stayed out of those sections . I might have talked about my vintage boat and motors in off-topic .

    Comment


    • #17
      I belong to a few sites, boating and others, they all offer something different, on here I an ask what might seem silly/obvious questions, and get mostly informative answers. On some other sites, all you get is abuse, one "local" fishing site I belong to, lots of members have looked me up when visiting the area. I have even met some great friends who started as keyboard acquaintances, that through travel (theirs or mine) we have became great friends, both here and overseas (including the US) I am meeting a great couple this year from Seattle that I bumped into on a cruise here years ago, and we have become friends. I guess you get out if things what you put in, life's way too short to hold grudges and cry about insignificant things.

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      • #18
        I could tell some stories of things I did at other sites ( not TOS ) but maybe I shouldn't. 😉
        Sometimes it takes a lot of drama to keep sites on track and sometimes it takes less drama to keep them peaceful . A lot can be lost in the pursuit of peace .

        Comment


        • #19
          So from what I am reading, some people think they are saving a site by intentionally creating drama.

          I would think the opposite. The main site I visit first and most often post on is BOB. Strictly because of the people and (used to be) extremely low drama.

          I don't post on tos very often and only on technical stuff that I am 100% certain of. I visit the Boating, and Florida Forums peek at the funny pic thread and leave immediately afterwards. Strictly because of the drama.

          Comment


          • the other tom
            the other tom commented
            Editing a comment
            What was that song from the '90s?, "Isn't it Ironic"....

        • #20
          Originally posted by Sans Peur View Post
          So from what I am reading, some people think they are saving a site by intentionally creating drama.

          I would think the opposite. The main site I visit first and most often post on is BOB. Strictly because of the people and (used to be) extremely low drama.

          I don't post on tos very often and only on technical stuff that I am 100% certain of. I visit the Boating, and Florida Forums peek at the funny pic thread and leave immediately afterwards. Strictly because of the drama.
          Why anyone would take it upon themselves to create drama because “they” feel like it needs to be done, is beyond me. First, it’s not their place to do so. They don’t own the site. They didn’t start the site. They don’t run the site. Nor do they moderate the site. They are not admin, or any authoritative figure for the site, yet, they “feel” it must be done. Lol.
          As of April 2nd, boatless for the first time in many years.
          2019 Tidewater 252 CC Twin F150's- SOLD
          2016 Tidewater 230 CC VF250 SHO- SOLD
          Mobile, Al.
          Dauphin Island, Al.

          Comment


          • #21
            Originally posted by Sans Peur View Post
            So from what I am reading, some people think they are saving a site by intentionally creating drama.

            I would think the opposite. The main site I visit first and most often post on is BOB. Strictly because of the people and (used to be) extremely low drama.

            I don't post on tos very often and only on technical stuff that I am 100% certain of. I visit the Boating, and Florida Forums peek at the funny pic thread and leave immediately afterwards. Strictly because of the drama.
            No, they would sometimes be intentionally using a sub-forum as advertised and not just off-topic. They would intentionally go to extremes , within rules , to pursue that just cause . The drama would be a by-product but not the intention . I've done it numerous times and it did help in saving a portion of a site while it was allowed.
            When the advertised intention of a section is sacrificed to eliminate drama , instead of dealing with the people that are breaking the rules , a site continues the downward trend.

            There could be some benefit in intentionally creating drama on a money site like TOS because some people come/came there for that . They use people to make money and they try to keep a certain amount of drama going. I guess one could say they intentionally create drama to save the site and I would agree.

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            • #22
              Originally posted by Sailsalot View Post

              No, they would sometimes be intentionally using a sub-forum as advertised and not just off-topic. They would intentionally go to extremes , within rules , to pursue that just cause . The drama would be a by-product but not the intention . I've done it numerous times and it did help in saving a portion of a site while it was allowed.
              When the advertised intention of a section is sacrificed to eliminate drama , instead of dealing with the people that are breaking the rules , a site continues the downward trend.

              There could be some benefit in intentionally creating drama on a money site like TOS because some people come/came there for that . They use people to make money and they try to keep a certain amount of drama going. I guess one could say they intentionally create drama to save the site and I would agree.
              That's the point.. A just cause? According to who? No one asked for this "cause" to be taken up. People just take it upon themselves to self appoint, and become the "savior" of something they were never asked to do, nor authorized to do. It ruins places. That is what moderators and admin are for. If someone (you, me, anyone) doesn't like the way a site is moderated/ran, start your own. You can run it anyway you like. That is why BoB exist today.

              I like it here. I like drama free reading and chit chats. The subject matter is up to us. Boats, cars, food, hunting, fishing, etc.. We have it all.
              As of April 2nd, boatless for the first time in many years.
              2019 Tidewater 252 CC Twin F150's- SOLD
              2016 Tidewater 230 CC VF250 SHO- SOLD
              Mobile, Al.
              Dauphin Island, Al.

              Comment


              • #23
                OK , I'll weigh in here . In my opinion , forums like BOB are a mecca of boating knowledge , people come here for help and to learn about boating , where to go , what to buy . That's the meat and potatoes , what you like to call the Off-Topic sections are just garnish .
                A little drama is accepted and can even be funny at times , a little busting each others balls is a good pastime . But, it's like fish , after a while it starts to stink .
                Too much drama just gets old and drives the good people away until all you end up with is a bunch of posters just sniping at each other and being dicks .

                Funny Kemp , you ask a question in the title of this post , then spend the rest of it denying the input others give you and blow your own horn about how you've saved forums .
                Maybe you can't see the forest because of all the trees ? Now , I don't pretend to be an expert on forums and I'm not trying to start another pissing match , but you did ask .

                Comment


                • #24
                  Originally posted by KMac View Post

                  That's the point.. A just cause? According to who? No one asked for this "cause" to be taken up. People just take it upon themselves to self appoint, and become the "savior" of something they were never asked to do, nor authorized to do. It ruins places. That is what moderators and admin are for. If someone (you, me, anyone) doesn't like the way a site is moderated/ran, start your own. You can run it anyway you like. That is why BoB exist today.

                  I like it here. I like drama free reading and chit chats. The subject matter is up to us. Boats, cars, food, hunting, fishing, etc.. We have it all.
                  A just cause would be , for example . to keep the boating section on TOS as advertised without the negativity within. I think some people have tried but without authority helping out it doesn't go far . So you have people mucking up the forum and you have those in authority doing nothing about it . 2 wrongs don't make aright.

                  The same can be said for a lot of other places and sections and that is what this thread is about. That's the subject matter here. It is a just cause to participate on sites and discuss things like " Research and Getting Permission " and " Legal Issues " and a host of other things that are advertised and helpful to people when discussed. People are asked to discuss them things and are authorized to do so. It does cause drama and it may ruin places but it isn't the one's trying to discuss and pushing the issues that are the problem.
                  I

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Originally posted by Smitty45 View Post
                    OK , I'll weigh in here . In my opinion , forums like BOB are a mecca of boating knowledge , people come here for help and to learn about boating , where to go , what to buy . That's the meat and potatoes , what you like to call the Off-Topic sections are just garnish .
                    A little drama is accepted and can even be funny at times , a little busting each others balls is a good pastime . But, it's like fish , after a while it starts to stink .
                    Too much drama just gets old and drives the good people away until all you end up with is a bunch of posters just sniping at each other and being dicks .

                    Funny Kemp , you ask a question in the title of this post , then spend the rest of it denying the input others give you and blow your own horn about how you've saved forums .
                    Maybe you can't see the forest because of all the trees ? Now , I don't pretend to be an expert on forums and I'm not trying to start another pissing match , but you did ask .
                    I haven't denied anyone's input nor have I said I saved any forums. Besides the things you mentioned that this forum has, it also has you that posts stuff that simply is not true. That's just a fact and we can avoid it because it may cause drama. But does that make the forum a better place. Some might think so, but it seems to me that if you didn't post stuff that wasn't true that would be a solution.

                    Comment


                    • #26
                      Originally posted by Sailsalot View Post
                      People are asked to discuss them things and are authorized to do so. It does cause drama and it may ruin places but it isn't the one's trying to discuss and pushing the issues that are the problem.
                      I
                      But, that IS the problem. No one asked these “people” to take up a cause. And the byproduct is ruining a site, or sections of a site. To which, the reason why people get kicked out when it’s apparent that they are causing trouble, for drama sake.

                      I think I remember you saying you are a painter? Say your neighbor desperately needed a paint job. Exterior only. You go to them and suggest you would be willing to paint the house for free, if they provide the material. They bought the paint and only wanted you to apply the paint they bought, no questions. You see they bought interior paint. You point this out and they say, yes I know, it’s the best paint for my house. You object. They say it’s this paint or nothing. All the literature for the paint says, “intended” for interior painting. For best results, should not be used for exterior painting. But, it is paint. The neighbor says there is no difference, besides price. You’re a painter and you know better. It’s your name behind this.

                      Would you:

                      A. Paint the house with interior paint.
                      B. Refuse to use interior paint and give up the job.
                      Because you know better. The literature may not
                      Specifically say you can’t use the paint on the exterior
                      Of the house, but you know what will happen if you do.
                      You don’t want your name and business associated
                      with that.
                      C. Buy exterior paint and paint the house with this paint,
                      at your cost. Not telling the homeowner.
                      D. Tell the homeowner that paint is so yesterday. Vinyl
                      ​​​​​​ Is the way to go.
                      E. None of the above.

                      As of April 2nd, boatless for the first time in many years.
                      2019 Tidewater 252 CC Twin F150's- SOLD
                      2016 Tidewater 230 CC VF250 SHO- SOLD
                      Mobile, Al.
                      Dauphin Island, Al.

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        When I was first on the TOS it was a WAY different site then it was the day I left. Even before I left I felt the site was going down the toilet for actual boating/engine help. It was popular, but not for the reasons it was started. It seemed more popular to pile on a naïve question then it was to actually help. But besides the attempt to ruin it, it still goes on. Not a day goes by that someone emails about something I wrote 10 or more years ago, and acts like I just wrote it(they must not look at the posting dates lol). But I am thankful for the TOS, because unknowingly at the time it was a launching pad for a business. But am equally glad I am not on it anymore. I am always willing to help(by email), just not willing to be a dart board anymore. I do miss some of the relationships with the "old timers" over there. Tireless and Big Al come to mind, whitty, funny but are not a-holes, even when poked.

                        If everyone that uses a forum had to be transparent on who they are really, the bickering and pot shots would probably stop. Many of this forum, I actually know who they are. Some others that fling crap would rather remain anonymous, which is their choice. But when they start flinging arrows, it means very little to me. Cowardly is a better word for that kind of behavior.
                        Andrew Munao Jr
                        Yamaha Sales/Tech Support, SIM Yamaha
                        888-231-2392 | [email protected] | simyamaha.com

                        Comment


                        • fijon
                          fijon commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I'm glad I came across you there. Your websight and business has been hugely helpful in my recent journey into outboard repair and maintenance!

                        • KMac
                          KMac commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Andy has always been helpful and willing to guide people along. He did the same with me.

                      • #28
                        Originally posted by SIM View Post
                        When I was first on the TOS it was a WAY different site then it was the day I left. Even before I left I felt the site was going down the toilet for actual boating/engine help. It was popular, but not for the reasons it was started. It seemed more popular to pile on a naïve question then it was to actually help. But besides the attempt to ruin it, it still goes on. Not a day goes by that someone emails about something I wrote 10 or more years ago, and acts like I just wrote it(they must not look at the posting dates lol). But I am thankful for the TOS, because unknowingly at the time it was a launching pad for a business. But am equally glad I am not on it anymore. I am always willing to help(by email), just not willing to be a dart board anymore. I do miss some of the relationships with the "old timers" over there. Tireless and Big Al come to mind, whitty, funny but are not a-holes, even when poked.

                        If everyone that uses a forum had to be transparent on who they are really, the bickering and pot shots would probably stop. Many of this forum, I actually know who they are. Some others that fling crap would rather remain anonymous, which is their choice. But when they start flinging arrows, it means very little to me. Cowardly is a better word for that kind of behavior.
                        Excellent post, Andy.
                        As of April 2nd, boatless for the first time in many years.
                        2019 Tidewater 252 CC Twin F150's- SOLD
                        2016 Tidewater 230 CC VF250 SHO- SOLD
                        Mobile, Al.
                        Dauphin Island, Al.

                        Comment


                        • #29
                          I'll add one more reason in addition to the aforementioned bravado that eventually creates the demise of sites... relevant content.

                          The only thing that changes rapidly is electronics. Engines change slowly and known repair and maintenance issues are covered heavily within the first year or so of production.

                          My point is, without new products, there is no new content to be added through discussion as it's all been covered for the most part. Even new products really don't have that much different from previous versions.
                          Barefoot Boats
                          [email protected]
                          (386)256-6977

                          Comment


                          • #30
                            Originally posted by KMac View Post

                            But, that IS the problem. No one asked these “people” to take up a cause. And the byproduct is ruining a site, or sections of a site. To which, the reason why people get kicked out when it’s apparent that they are causing trouble, for drama sake.........

                            Come on Kyle. Read what's on the lines. Anyone is taking up a cause by commenting when they post on topic of a thread. If you go into the boating forum and address someone's concern you have a cause. The same thing holds true for going into a " Research and Getting permission " or " Legal issues " thread . They are being asked to do so by that section being advertised as such and seeking comment.
                            When doing that the reason they may get kicked out is not for causing trouble it is often for using the section as advertised and refusing to yield to the troublemakers.
                            If you have no expertise in doing so , and apparently you don't., you are a problem when it comes to discussing the reality of the problems many forums face.

                            Comment


                            • bluewaterposer
                              bluewaterposer commented
                              Editing a comment
                              You just confused me, good job.
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